Whole Sign Houses

topic posted Tue, February 1, 2005 - 11:43 PM by  Chris
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Lets talk about Whole Sign houses, their application to modern astrology, their historical basis, and what this means to the astrological community as a whole.

First off, what are Whole Signs Houses? The Whole Sign house system was the original means of dividing up the chart into a separate, twelve fold division in order to determine which area of life a planet had influence over. Modern astrologers are familiar with this concept, and can chose from a wide variety of systems, which divide the four quadrants by various calculations, the most popular today being the Placidus method of house division. Whole Sign Houses are really not a system of houses at all per se, but rather you use the signs as houses, instead of creating a separate 12-fold division of the zodiac. In this system, you find the ascendant, and the sign that the ascendant falls in designates the entire first house, from 0 to 30 degrees of that sign, regardless of where the ascendant falls in that sign. From there you count each sign after that initial sign as one whole house. In this system, the Ascendant and the Midheaven do not act as the cusps of the houses, they both merely act as horoscopic points in the chart, like the part of fortune, or the vertex for example. While the word ‘horoscope’ has come to mean the entire chart itself in modern times, Rob Hand points out in his work on Whole Sign Houses that the Greek word for horoscope was originally more specifically defined as a point in the chart. Thus the ascendant, midheaven, and the Lots (aka Arabic Parts) could all be generally defined under the category of ‘horoscopic points’. One especially crucial aspect of the Whole Sign house system is that the midheaven does not designate the cusp of the 10th house, it just acts as a point of focus, and can land in the 8th 9th 10th 11th or 12th house depending on ones location on the earth. Also, while the ascendant acts as a horoscopic point, which designates the sign in which the first house falls, it does not necessarily designate the ‘cusp’, or starting point of the first house, but merely as a point of focus or heightened activity, because in fact the first house really begins at the beginning of the sign in which the ascendant falls, no matter how late in whatever particular sign it is found. So, in order to find the houses in a chart, every sign counted counterclockwise after the first ‘place’ or sign that contains the ascendant is taken to be the house next in order, because both the signs and the houses coincide with one another, although each retains its own distinct meaning.

This is the oldest form of house division, which was used during the Hellenistic era by our astrological forbearers during the time of horoscopic astrology’s creation. It has only been recently rediscovered over the past decade or so, due to the newly translated works of the Hellenistic astrologers. It has been shown that the house systems that the vast majority of modern astrologers use today, is not what the founders had originally intended, and in fact it all started due a misinterpretation of several fundamental Hellenistic texts during the transmission of western astrology to the Arabs presumably in the 7th and 8th centuries.

The system of house division that is used today by most astrologers was originally devised by the Greeks as a way of measuring planetary 'activity', or perhaps strength. This system of ‘dynamic division’, where you take the Ascendant and Midheaven as starting points, and then divide the quadrants accordingly, which is similar to our modern idea of house division, is clearly explained by several of the Hellenistic astrologers, including Ptolemy who was not a practicing astrologer, but they were careful to explain that this was a ‘dynamical’ division intended to gauge how “busy” a planet is, as opposed to the ‘topical’ division of the chart which designates the actual areas, or ‘houses’ of the chart.


Vettius Valens explains a type of ‘dynamical’ division, which would be the equivalent to Porphyry, where the first third of each quadrant, from each of the four angular points, (i.e. the Asc/Dsc., MC/IC) known in modern house division as the angular ‘houses’ (1st, 4th, 7th, 10th) are the most ‘busy’ or active ’houses’. The following third of the quadrant (i.e. 2nd, 5th, 8th, 11th) is only 'moderately active’. And the last third of each quadrant (i.e. 3, 6, 9, 12) is the 'least active' of all the divisions. So. This is called a 'dynamical' division of the chart, because it is a way to gauge planetary activity, or strength, BUT it does not delegate, or signify the areas of life affected by the planetary placements. That’s what the 'topical' division of the chart is for, i.e. Whole Sign houses, because that shows what area of life is effected.

So essentially what happened is that when horoscopic astrology was passed to the Arabs through the Greek writings in the 7th and 8th centuries, the original understanding of how the houses were divided was lost, and through scribal error, and misinterpretations they ended up passing astrology back to the West during the Renaissance with a form of house division that was not intended for what it was being used for. Some of the Arab astrologers such as Masha’allah correctly understood how the Greeks divided the houses, and in his work and several other Arab astrologers works from that period you can see them clearly using Whole Signs, but sadly much of their work was not available by the time astrology made it back to the west, and what little was available, was misunderstood.

Another interesting dimension to this saga is that Vedic astrology, which was heavily influenced by the Hellenistic astrologers, still uses Whole Sign houses to this day because they didn’t have the problems that western astrology had with it being transmitted from culture to culture, and misinterpreted and such. Their astrology is still essentially the same as it was 2,000 years ago, and they employ many of the same techniques as the Hellenistic astrologers did, even the same house system- Whole Sign Houses, but for some reason, we lost connection with our roots.

So my point with all of this is to try and alert you all that there is a change afoot. This simple, yet remarkably important facet of astrology has been rediscovered and could really go a long way in solving some of the simplest problems (i.e. intercepted houses, multiple systems of house division, etc.) that have plagued us for hundreds of years now. Many modern astrologers view Sun-Sign astrology distastefully, almost as a de-evolution of the art, but in this case its funny, because the tables may be turned, because they have been using Whole Signs all along.

At least give it a try and go through a few old charts of people who you know and see if it resonates or elucidates certain areas which had always been a mystery before. Many of the charts may not even change at all, but for the ones that do, be sure to pay attention to planets changing houses, house rulership, and which sign the Midheaven falls in.

Questions? Comments? Death threats?

Chris Brennan
posted by:
Chris
Maryland
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  • Re: Whole Sign Houses

    Wed, February 2, 2005 - 11:50 AM
    These are definately interesting comments that you have posted. I had no idea that misinterpretation was the primary reason for the switch. (You learn something new everyday or so they say). Personally, (it must be my darn capricornian moon, ordered systems just set me at ease) I use it when it philosophically makes sense to do so, which in my mind is when dealing with chart potential or arabic parts, but I have not found it to be as accurate when dealing with time/space issues. For example most non-horary career questions (the will this make me happy? Can I make money doing such and such?") I would use a whole house system because I am judging the potential for a person to find happiness. I use prophry with issues dealing with timing-- such as when is a good time to start this business, or when will I find love, and even with psychological profiling (because I believe that in many ways one's psychological profile is going to be largely based on past occurances) --because it is a system that divides the houses by time. And I have found that especially with the 1st/12 house cusp this can make a huge difference. Likewise, I used Regiomontus when dealing with issues associated with space like, "where is my grandmother's watch" because it's houses are divisions of space-- and in questions like that sometimes interceptions prove to be the most invaluable part of the whole chart.
    I stick to whole house system with arabic parts because I think that is absolutely absurd to import a part of one system and just assume it will work fine in another system without modification. (Kinda like taking a honda civic engine and throwing in a hummer and expecting the hummer to drive like a civic.) But I also tend to switch over to sidereal when working with parts, I am just that anal.
    Oh I also tend to use whole sign houses with synestry charts because I veiw this as relationship potential and non-timing analysis of relationship composites. (But I also do my composites differently because I hate hate hate the midpoint method of composites, but I suppose that is for a different thread.)
    • Re: Whole Sign Houses

      Wed, February 2, 2005 - 11:54 PM

      Wow. So you have been using Whole Signs for a while? This is odd to me because usually I get a lot of flak in the astrological community when I say that I use Whole Sign Houses. I’m still trying to figure out the dividing line of when to use the other charts like Regio. and Porphyry. So far I just use them as an overlap to WH to gauge planetary activity. I like your way of using them for timing. I will have to look into that. So far I have just been using WH for everything since I finally made the switch. It seems to work pretty well in every chart that I look at, but of course an astrologer is always experimenting.

      Really? You hate composites? I love them! I get so many great results from analyzing comps.! Well, except for my own relaionship charts… but that is another story… but anyways, what is this other method that you use? Is it the Davison thing?
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Whole Sign Houses

        Sat, June 17, 2006 - 1:05 AM
        I have used nothing but whole signs for the previous 18 months, both in my professional writings and my personal consultations. No complaints, no problems, and as accurate as one is able to be using possibilities for occurrences.

        Excellent article Chris, very well explained.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Whole Sign Houses

          Fri, July 21, 2006 - 9:43 PM
          Hi,

          I use whole signs, koch if asked to check out a personal chart but only due to the fact I lose impact if I confuse people mentioning their aspects if they are not known to them in a particular house. Wouldn't one just use regio for horary?
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: Whole Sign Houses

            Mon, September 4, 2006 - 12:51 PM
            is whole house system diff from the equal house system? or are they the same?
            peace,
            breath
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: Whole Sign Houses

              Mon, September 4, 2006 - 1:00 PM
              ok, i found the answer to my own question. now, why is it that noone but vedic astrologers cast charts using the whole house system?
              peace,
              breath
              • Re: Whole Sign Houses

                Sun, September 24, 2006 - 2:40 PM
                --why is it that noone but vedic astrologers cast charts using the whole house system?--

                I think it has to do a lot with the idea that we in astrology must understand symbolisms, archtypicals and energy as of fields and houses. The vedics tend to have more of a esoteric while we tend to the scientific mind. Placidus is more of a scientific instrustrament, while equal house gives to the general trends and directiions as a solar chart. One of the best instraments to give predictive astrology is the use of the solar chart first by many astrologers. Astrology is such a vast science that there are so many different and diverse people into it today that understanding the whole issue of Astrology is some what over bearing. And all of it is viable.
                • Re: Whole Sign Houses

                  Fri, October 6, 2006 - 10:22 PM
                  Hi Dear Brian and Friends,
                  Whole house and equal house system is very good when we need to look at personality profile of a person however, to find out timing of events it is wise to take support of Placidus (Semi Arc), Regiomontanus, Prophyry or Topocentric.

                  There is one KP System in Vedic, which claims to be very accurate, founded by Late K.S. Krishnamurthy. This system uses Placidus house divisions. Alan Leo did not agree with logic of using Semi Arc so he was not in favour of using Placidus at all. It basically depends on which house systems suits Astrologer the most, specifically while reading timing of events. House System is a burning issue. Cosmobiologists (Ebertin) and even A.T. Mann are in favour of using MidPoints without considering house Systems at all.

                  So it almost depends on Personal Choice, which house System to use.

                  Regards,
                  Intuitive_Divinator
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Whole Sign Houses

                    Sat, October 7, 2006 - 2:34 PM
                    --Whole house and equal house system is very good when we need to look at personality profile of a person however, to find out timing of events it is wise to take support of Placidus

                    There is one KP System in Vedic, which claims to be very accurate, founded by Late K.S. Krishnamurthy. This system uses Placidus house divisions. Alan Leo did not agree with logic of using Semi Arc so he was not in favour of using Placidus at all.--

                    Because Astrology have become such a science to many of us. that the use of these types of chart systems has become confusing. Placidus deals with the structure of the universe according to sidreal time, while equal chart systems basic solar chart systems have offered different views on the totality of astrology. But if you look at it, the ones who deal with placidus tend to be more pyshcological than trendish. Predictive astology can be instramental as far as events are concerned, But there is a different perspective to look at it from. One more of the internal. I feel that Placidus offers the astrologers that opinion. I have studied this subject for many yrs and like to offer to you that predictive astrology must have a foundation in both methods, of equal chart and placidus. But with Placidus we can see the more internal structure of the individual with timings that correspond not only in general as a prediction but internal as an event. For me as of now, with nothing more to influence me, Placidus is the chart, that all should follow for personal integration and equal house systems more to the diretion of the events. It may not be to ones liking, but for me its the one thats more acurrate. At this time.
                • Re: Whole Sign Houses

                  Tue, November 28, 2006 - 8:10 PM
                  Shamanic Astrologers also use the whole house system. You can get more info on them at shamanicastrology.com. They use astrology from an archtypal perspective. Really very interesting & useful!
  • Re: Whole Sign Houses

    Thu, March 1, 2007 - 2:07 PM
    I must say that i found something very interesting in Whole sign houses.....something I have been looking for in my chart since I started.
    My question has been...why i am (was.. when i was younger) such a very Quiet "inward" person. I have a mars-mercury conjunction in libra in trigon to my moon/chiron in 3rd h in aquarious, which doesnt sound especially quiet. !! Mars is also sextile with uranus...no other aspects........!!!! My moon has more aspects though(t-square sun/nept+uranus)
    With whole sign houses I have mars/merc in 12 house and moon in konj IC......Hepp, that sounds right..............now i have grown older and not "more quiet anymore " just a bit quiet (with a rich inner life). Thanks a lot ....I do finally feel at home in my chart now.
    I just wanted to share this with you.
    • Re: Whole Sign Houses

      Mon, November 23, 2009 - 7:37 AM
      I've just recently discovered it..for a few months, actually..and it has raised a lot of questions for me, since it changes almost all my planets' positions by house, and I am still confused as to which house system I should stick to, since the descriptions for planets by sign and planetary aspects are enough to describe my life path till this ripe old age of 20. lol

      Now, I'm thinking of giving up houses altogether.

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